Trimaran capsizes off New Zealand! Multi-hull or Mono-hull?

[seageek]

So, we're looking for a new boat, and we are talking about multi-hulls. My concern is the seaworthiness of a multi-hull in relation to a mono-hull. Anybody have any input?

I have been following the progress of the Groupama 3 crew, and the news today did not give me much confidence. Of course this is a racing sailboat, not a cruising multi-hull, but...

Groupama 3 capsized last night off the coast of New Zealand. The crew is safe and sound. You can read the story here: http://yachtpals.com/boating/groupama-capsize

What a shame, it was looking so good for them

[colemj]

Ugh, these types of threads are usually destined to go the same way as anchor threads.

Your question is flawed without refining your criteria. Is the Catana 50 more seaworthy than the Macgregor 26? The Gemini 34 less seaworthy than a Hunter 34? In the Bahamas, or the Southern Ocean? One could argue that the capsize trimaran was less seaworthy than most production boats because it was designed to be held together to a certain extent by a well-trained professional crew. And only for as long as it takes to finish one relatively short and well-defined passage.

A poll will provide you nothing useful toward answering your question about what type of boat you should get. You would get a more informed decision by detailing your requirements and reading suitable reference materials on multihulls if you feel you need more information on them.

Mark

[R Booth]

As my Dad you to say, this is like comparing apples to hubcaps.


But good luck on your research S/Geek..............

[GMac]

Any boat is dangerous if driven by a loony. The number of hulls has no bearing.
Racing boats don't count as they are pushed a lot harder than any cruiser would (should) be.

I've done 30K odd sea miles in monos but my 'sail off into the sunset to die' boat will have 2 hulls.

[kend]

I think Gmac hit the nail on the head. It depends on how they are sailed and the proficiency of the crew. We have had many friends cross the Atlantic & Pacific in both types of boats. I think, like any boat, some multi- hulls are built for offshore and some are not. The decision on whether to purchase a mono or multi hull is usually based on other factors like liveability, purchase cost, cost of moorage and operation etc.

At this point we are searching for the cruising boat as well but it will be a mono hull because our slip (which are like hens teeth to find) will only fit this type and our budget, being $200,000, dictates a mono hull. By the time we get it setup for cruising we will probably spend another $50,000+. If I had endless money I would probably look at a cat myself.

[rockerdar]

Hi Kim,

My husband and I have sailed monohulls our entire lives. When we finally decided to 'live the dream' to sail around the world, though, we decided the 'only way to go' (for us) was with a multihull. We spent a couple years looking at various ones until we found the one that we wanted, which we purchased in July 2006. We sailed away in November of that year. The best thing I can tell you is that we know 100% that we made the right choice. We have had dozens of friends on the boat -- all monohull sailors (we have been actively involved in racing for decades) -- and they all have fallen in love with our boat and say that they would choose a multihull were they to ever be able (or willing!) to leave their comfortable lives ashore and sail away.

The living space on a multihull vs. a monohull is amazing. And there are very well-designed, safe bluewater multihulls out there. The other thing I like about a multihull is that if you get a hole in one hull, you still have another hull to keep you afloat. We crossed from St. Barts to the Mediterranean last May. This coming December we will cross back over to the Caribbean. I feel safer on my multihull than I would on a monohull . . .

You need to consider what you will primarily do with the boat and where you plan to sail, then look at your budget and what you can get in a monohull vs. a multihull. We could have gotten a much larger monohull for what we paid for our catamaran. Or we could have gotten a smaller, but much fancier monohull. But we love the space, the comfort, and the speed of our catamaran. We are converts and wouldn't go back. No regrets!

Darlene & Robert Hill
s/v Following Tides
Currently in Ostia (Rome), Italy

[geozeck]

In another thread it was shown that after reviewing years of insurance claims, underwriters charge mono's of comparable size and price the same rate to cross the ocean as multi hulls. The loss factors are nearly identical. A major cause of ship sinking is not so much bad weather as it is hitting debris such as partially submerged barrels. Phil Bermann points out that while cats can turn over, they won't sink. While monos can sink. Neither happens on any regular basis.

Hey Kend....check out www.2hulls.com and you can see where $200k will buy you a lot of cat.

[kend]

The cats sure look great. A lot of room for the size. My problem is finding moorage and it I do at what price. I know most cruises stay on the hook a lot of time but how have you found it to find a slip when you wanted to stop at a marina? Have you found it hard to find a place that can haul your cat out? The pickings are quite slim here. The other thing I have heard is that in a quarter sea it can be quite uncomfortable with a lot of movement; which can cause sea sickness. I think a cat is safe enough, just not sure about my other points. Love the room though.

By the way, your point about hitting submerged or partially submerged object is quite true. An friend of our reinforce their bow with another layer of plywood fiberglass inside the anchor locker area. They had also filled any gaps between the wood and hull with foam prior to fiberglassing. After crossing the Atlantic they pulled into Gibralter and were walking the dock when they realized they had a large gash in their bow, right through the hull fiberglass and below the waterline. Their reinforced bow saved them. They had been in a storm and think they hit a container at night. Always pays to be prepared.

[rockerdar]

We don't go into marinas very often. We prefer to anchor out and go in by dinghy whenever possible. While in the Caribbean, we only went in to a marina when we were getting work done. While in the Mediterranean, we had some trouble locating marinas that had space for a catamaran. Many didn't have room for any boats, though, during the high season. In Barcelona, you pretty much have to stay at a marina. We were able to secure a berth in a newer marina. It took us awhile to locate a place to keep our cat over the winter also. We found, in the Med, that marinas just automatically say they don't have room for a cat. Of those we usually found, it cost about double the price (you are taking up twice the space, though! ). So far we have been able to locate places to haul out when we have needed to do so.

When considering a multi vs a mono, you do need to remember that it will cost you more in the long run for a multi. You basically have two boats (hulls) to take care of vs. one, and you will have higher fees for berths, haul-outs, repairs, maintenance (two bottoms to paint!), etc.

There are more multihulls out there now than ever before. And their popularity continues to increase. As such, I believe it will get easier as the years pass to find places to haul and store them.

We've been in extremely rough weather on our cat. They are more stable than monohulls and our experience is that people have less of a tendency for seasickness on it. But people that tend towards motion sickness will get sick on most anything that floats!

[geozeck]

My experience is limited to the ICW and coastal cruising from the Keys to Annapolis and back. If you are forced to use two slips, marina operators try to charge you double. However, if we check hard enough we always are able to find space in a face or end dock where width is not important. The good is that you always have a great view and the bad is that you are sometimes near the gas dock. We even found dockage in the Miami area during the Boat Show. Hull outs are not real heard with a beam of 23 or less. Above that is a bit tough. Our cat is 43 by 23.

I think most cat owners are very inclined to live on the hook, hence the "need" for more room. Our boat is equipped with a large genset and watermaker.

[geozeck]

Although both cats and tris are mult-hulls, there are big differences. The main thing is tris are usually made to lift one hull out of the water where cats don't even heel. If a cat is over by 5 degrees, the operator is doing something wrong.

[Tony Bullard]

A good place to look for this kind of answer is the insurance companies. They do lots of research and keep accident records to determine risk.

Athough multi-hulls make up only only a small portion of the cruising community they account for 3% more catastrophic accidents than monohulls every year.

Everyone knows that holes in a hull are not a good thing and therefore sailors should keep through hulls to a minimum. Every multi-hull has two absolutely huge escape hatches on their bottoms. Bad, Bad idea.

Second, why do multi-hulls have escape hatches on their bottoms? Think about it.

Tony

[svtrio]

Every multi-hull doesn't have an escape hatch built into each hull anymore than every mono-hull has built-in inflatable flotation.

These types of boats are different from one another, and like houses, vehicles and most everything else, folks can pick the pros and cons of each.

My wife and I happen to enjoy our Prout Snowgoose, a catamaran, and we are working hard on a refit to go cruising again.

Roger

[Arni]

I've sailed with my family from the East coast of the USA to, so far, Australia, with many meanderings en-route. Our catamaran, designed for ocean cruising, has been superb. Like all boat owners, there have been issues in these 3 years, but none has been major or affected safety.
As for capsizing, heavy weather tactics in a cat are different to a mono, and if you follow the recommended way of dealing with heavy weather, ad take into account your boat's characteristics, a cat is as safe as a mono. But take a lightweight cat and put it into the hands of a cruiser who doesn't understand it, and you will get problems. Our cat is much faster than a similar size mono, so we can afford to reef early, and sail conservatively. I have two young childen aboard, so I am extra cautious.
But if the worst happens? Well, in a mono, the capsized vessel will probably right itself, unless its a fat-bodied charter vessel with shallow draught. But when it does come up, it will probably have no rig, so now you are sitting in a hulk that might just be able to motor, or rig a jury rig.
If your cat turns over, you are now the captain of an upside-down raft. Neither situation is very good, and both types can avoid it. It will be much harder to turn over a cat, but if conditions get severe, parachute sea anchors are the best bet. Never run in severe seas, and never lie ahull in a mono. Best of all, buy the right type of boat, and here many cat purchasers have no experience of the type, and so make the wrong choice. Look at what cats are sailing the major oceans. It is rare to see the models that are common as charter boats. That is true of monos too, of course.
Look at www.camarni.com to see what we have been up to.

[captmarkhd]

Ok Guys, I'm going to stir the pot. I am a mono hull sailor through and through, there is no way, no how any one can convince me that a multi hull is as sea worthy, overall all as a monohull. There are to many documented cases of muti hulls going over, every year. Any body that says it is easier for a mono hull to capisize is in denial. If you want to compare apples to apples, look at the around the world races, all are race boats,all being pushed to the limits, mono hulls out numbering multi hulls 2 to 1 and the multi hulls end up on average, up side down twice as often. Sure they may not sink, but who wants to live up side down? And guess what, the boat is a total loss. Sure there have been allot of cases of mono hulls being capsized, but in what kind of conditions? What size boat? It is going to take hurricane condition's to capsize a mono hull over 40 ft or more. Out of those, they always come back up right (unless she has taken major damage), maybe with or without the rig. So now your boat is still intact, floating and not a total loss. You may or may not have an engine, you may or may not have a rig, but certanly you have more options then you do when a multi hull goes over.
Yes multi hulls are faster on average, if you keep them light! Light and cruising does not go together. Sure if you have 20+ knots, even a heavy multi hull can see double digit speeds, but I'm talking average wind speed of 10 knots or so. They are not that much faster than mono hulls when they are weighted down, and cannot point nearly as close to the wind (but nobody ever goes to weather) And you cannot compare a 40ft multi hull with a 40 ft mono hull, that's not fare, maybe a 40ft multi hull to a 50ft mono hull, that's more like it.
Sure the boats stay flat, but why hasn't any one said any thing about the noise down below, cats are built light, there hulls are very thin to keep them light, who want's to live in a drum? And talking about having light, thin hulls, how long do you think a Cat would survive beached on a reef? Not long at all. Sure allot of mono hulls end there days on reefs, but allot also make it off. Can you say that about Cats?
Having said all of this, I do believe that multi hulls have a place in the world, no body can fault them for being able to go places that mono hulls can't, IE; shallow water, perfect boat for the Carribean or costal cruising areas,(I may even own one then) And I'm sure they are very safe as long as you do not get into any serious weather. I just would not feel comfortable taking them on an extended, blue water circum nav. Ok guys Fire away at me!!
P.S.
And YES, I have done multiple blue water deliveries on multi hulls.